Let’s take a look at … – Dirty Bomb (Beta)

We covered Dirty Bomb last week as the title prepared to transition from closed to open Beta. Well, the game is now openly available through Steam, so here are our thoughts on what we’ve played so far.


In-case you missed our last article, Dirty Bomb is a FREE-to-play FPS from Splash Damage. With a heavy emphasis on fast, team-based combat, it’s all or nothing. The game starts with a clear and concise tutorial, covering not only the basics of a first person shooter, but also a quick guide to class specialties and skills such as the medic (Aura) being able to throw down healing stations and quick-revive fallen comrades. Right from the tutorial you can see the production value of the game. It’s so well done, with a witty narrator introducing you to the game.

Once you’re into the game you have the possibility to land in a variety of environments ranging from the classic Underground tube stations to the Aged Chapel, each with their own objectives. My favourite initial map had to be “Bridge” in which your objective when attacking is to repair your mobile vehicle (EV) and escort it to the completion zone. I loved the map’s mix of open areas for sniping, and tight alleys with their sharp corners for the more close-combat mercenaries such as the medic that utilises the shotgun and fast heals to capitalize on the funnel-like corridors.


The game consists of multiple classes known as mercenaries and it’s up to you which you choose to play with. As a new player you’ll have a few standard mercs unlocked, with the others requiring unlocking either through in-game currency or cash; the same system that MOBAs tend to use. At the time of writing each merc costs £7.99 or 50k in-game credits, or you can wait until that merc is in free-rotation to try it out for a limited time. Before each match you’re able to choose 3 to take into battle, and each time you respawn you have the opportunity to change between them, allowing you to respond to battle situations as they arise. Each has their own weapons, perks and loadouts, which are also handled in a unique way.


Loadouts in Dirt Bomb are handled through a card system. It’s really rather nice. Through playing games you unlock in-game currency which can be either spent on mercs or equipment cases. From each case you’ll receive a random loadout card for one of the mercs. This is how you get gear, and the cards come in a range of qualities, ranging from iron (a basic card) to cobalt (an epic card). You don’t unlock weapons, sidearms, and special equipment separately, then build a class, you unlock an entire loadout in a single card! Inevitably you end up with duplicate cards, so you can use them to ‘trade up’ to a card you want. It’s akin to the crafting system in Hearthstone; you use the value of existing cards to create others. So say you want a cobalt loadout for the sniper class, but don’t want to open a boatload of cases to get it. Well you can craft one providing you have enough cards of the right rarity. This is cross-class also, so you could dump all your cards for a certain merc you don’t play to create an epic loadout for one you do!


The developers and trailers all boast that the game is reliant on teamwork, as most FPS titles do, and this is a vital component to Dirty Bomb. Whilst I was able to rush round saving my fellow mercenaries with my speedy revives, when it came to drawn out standoffs with the opposing team I found myself relying heavily on my teammates generosity and their ability to deploy ammo packs as I rapidly fired through my few shotgun pellets and found myself backed into the corner desperately trying to defend objectives with solely my pistol and knife. Whilst this initially seems limiting, it does force team co-operation which led to some intense gameplay as teams set up stations with healers and ammo focused players as they progressed to their objectives. If you don’t play as a team you’re going to lose.

There are currently 2 gamemodes available: Objective and Stopwatch. In objective the goal is to either complete the level objectives, or stop the opposing team from completing them. Each map has different objectives, it isn’t a simple capture the flag deal, so there’s lots of fun and variance in gameplay to be had between maps. The other mode, Stopwatch, is a race to complete the level objectives as fast as you can, then stop the other team beating your time.


The standout factor of Dirty Bomb for me is the speed of combat. As soon as game starts teams pile forward relentlessly towards one another. This relentless back and forth continues throughout the game, and since it doesn’t take much to down you, sticking with your team is vital. If you do try to be a hero … well that won’t happen. You’ll run into a group of the opposition and you’ll be dead before you’ve even thought about shooting. It’s fast-paced, relentless team combat just as they promise.

The game’s art style and models are similar to that of titles such as Warface and Loadout with a detailed cartoonist art style, allowing for immersive gameplay without too much direct realism. Whilst there where minor texture issues, the game was in closed beta during my game time, I found the overall graphics to be fitting for the game style and pleasing to the eye, with the TF2 like animations such as the healing bay and ammo pickups. There is also a good range of options for player to alter their settings allowing those with non-high end rigs to enjoy the title.

The audio for the titles is enjoyable and solid as the rest of the game. In-game sounds are fitting and what you’d expect in any form of shooter, with a clear instructional voice describing the objective on each level.


Overall, after clocking a few hours on the title and ranking up to level 5, I think that Dirty Bomb is a fun and enjoyable F2P game which I can see myself spending around three to four hours on per session, especially if playing with friends as I would want to try and incorporate a full team skill set into some matches. The game feels incredibly solid and polished with an already impressive set of maps and loadouts and will only get better. If you’re into your shooters then this is a must-play.

Check out Dirty Bomb for yourself on Steam http://store.steampowered.com/app/333930/ or on the official site Nexon Site http://dirtybomb.nexon.net/, be sure to let us know what your thoughts are on the title via our comments section below or via social networks!

Tl:dr – Dirty Bomb is a FREE-to-play fast-paced shooter with a heavy emphasis on teamwork. With a unique approach to characters and loadouts, it feels fresh, and although in beta is a very much a solid and high quality game. It will only improve, so if you’re a fan of the genre it’s a must-have.

Rating – 9/10

Purchase – Steam FREE

Trailer –

Let’s talk about … – Surgeon Simulator certifies over 2 million!

Massive News for indie Development team -Bossa Studio’s as their title Surgeon Simulator reaches Two Million Sales with its barbaric medical practices and questionable patients.

Commenting on this landmark achievement Surgeon General Henrique Olifiers had this to say:

“Thanks to everyone who has played Surgeon Simulator and made it such a global success. It has been really amazing to see this title go from a game jam project to a full release across multiple formats and is testament to the originality and creativity we nurture here at Bossa Studios.”

In celebration of this feat, gamers itching to try their hand at major surgery can now scrub up and get their hands dirty with a 50% reduction of prices for the rest of the week (04/02/15), available on steam and IOS.

I managed to get my hands on a copy of surgeon simulator and I tried my best to transplant a heart, no biggie…

After a number of “incidents” where Bob wouldn’t make it through the minor surgery, I finally managed to perform the transplant and received an overall grade of D; which seeing that I have no previous medical knowledge I’d say it went rather well.

The game doesn’t end with just some basic transplants. As you work your way through a range of “Exotic” patients, you may find the title is riddled with bacteria like Easter eggs which are both detailed and perfectly linked with a collection of gaming titles.

Sounds great right? Get your hands on Surgeon simulator yourself over on steam at – http://store.steampowered.com/app/233720/ and IOS – https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/surgeon-simulator/id814977594?mt=8&dm_i=XF5,35UFQ,J1MK2Q,BBW7X,1.

****For those coming for the competition to win a key:****
Leave a comment with your favorite body part to remove in Surgeon Simulator!
Make sure the name you comment under is your Twitter name so we can contact you if you win.
The key will be a Steam Key and will awarded to a random comment on Sunday 8th February.

Let’s take a look at … – From The Depths


My initial thoughts of From the Depths was that this looks a similar concept to the indie title Space Engineers, and in a number of ways it is, you can create a custom ship and rage epic battles. However what caught my eye with “From The Depths” was the outstanding physics engine that it utilises.

You are initially presented with a slightly hectic main menu with a range of options available to the player, such as profile creation and user created content. In the background of the menu you are presented with in game creations that I can only dream to create.

Once you have created your profile you can play single or multiplayer, this is where really starts to shine. The single player mode allows the player to touch up their building skills prior to undertaking a series of story mode missions, this then progresses to campaign mode once the player has gained enough experience.


I was blown away by the massive range of blocks and add-ons that you can use to create your ships, ranging from standard decoration and construction blocks to Jet engines and Missile Launch Pads. You can spend hours creating your masterpiece and I did exactly that. However, do not become too attached to your creation as it is quickly torn apart in battle.  You are able to not only create battleships, but fighter jets an sky fortresses such as your very own version of the Death Star.

Each ship manoeuvres and operates in their own unique way, with the larger ships sacrificing speed for un-relenting power, and smaller ships darting around with hardy a turret in sight.  Each vehicle has a unique damage system that you would expect in most vehicle combat titles. Such as destroying an opponents engine will bring them to a halt, tear apart their hull and unload on their exposed warheads with devastating consequences.


 The game already has an established community base with a whole fleet of breath-taking user creations available in the steam workshop, with creations such as Submarines and complete battleships all available to download and check out.

Overall From The Depths excels similar titles such as Space engineers purely down to the vast customisation available and the seamless physics engine allowing for some vicious and diverse battles as nippy speed boats encircle the warhead carrying destroyers.

I can only see the game improving with an increase in building materials and an increase in the amount of missions available to the player, and along with the games massive replay ability value I will give it’s Alpha Build a rating of seven out of ten!


An Interview With … – The Basement Studios

Hello,my name is Luke and I’m the Co-founder of Indie Gamers, Id firstly like to thank you greatly for agreeing to be interviewed by myself and I look forward to reviewing your app in the future.

1.When and why was the development team formed?

Hey!  First of all I’d like to thank you Luke for giving us the opportunity an interview.  We’re a very small indie game development team and we need all the support and exposure we can get. I’m Andreas Grech, the programmer on the game. With me are Cameron Saliba, who’s our graphic designer and Richard Schembri, our website developer.

About five months ago, I started working on a prototype for a typing-shooter game in Unity. A week and a half later, I showed it to Cameron and he was really psyched about it!   And that’s when our little indie game dev “company” was born. Roughly two months later, I approached Richard who’s an old schoolmate of ours and told him about the plans I had for a website which would store and display detailed player and game session statistics.  He liked the idea and came onboard to take charge of this website.

2.Who formed the team?

I started working on the game alone, but I’m a programmer by trade and graphic design is not my forte…far from it.  So when Cameron joined the team, he took charge of the graphic design process around the game and started working on making the game look beautiful.

3.Who is now a member of the team?

We are now three dudes in total and together we’ve decided to call ourselves The Basement Studios.

4.Where did the name of “The Basement Studios” come from?

Stereotypically enough, we “operate” from a basement and thus it was very appropriate to name our team that.  Working in a basement has its benefits; for starters, we can immerse ourselves working on the game without any social distractions from the outside.  In fact, the only time we need to leave the basement is when we need our coffee fix…but that’s only until I manage to acquire some coffee machine to leave in our room.

5.What are the general views on games such as favorite genres and titles for the developers?

I personally think nostalgia’s a bitch, because I always melt whenever I reminiscence with my mates (and alone…) about the old point and click adventures I used to play on the Amiga 600 and 1200, but up until recently I was a WoW addict for ~7 years as well. Richard is mostly into retro style games especially those which have 16bit pixel art. His favourite genres are Shooters, Strategy games and the odd beat em up.  His favourite game(s) are the two No More Heroes games on the Wii; he’s really into that quirky style! Cameron, on the other, is more into action-adventure games and you can usually find him playing AAA games on the PS3 or Vita.

6.What games have the team developed in their past?

As a team, this is our first game; in the past, I wrote a game called The Lost Battle with Gosu and Chipmunk in Ruby, and co wrote the original Typocalypse game with XNA in C#.  Cameron had helped me with some of the in-game graphics for The Lost Battle as well.  Apart from that, I had also written a small game in JavaScript which simulates The Monty Hall Problem. Richard also developed a game with Gosu and Chipmunk in Ruby. It was a clone of the NES Kung Fu game but in an endurance mode format.  He also created a turn based RPG in Silverlight which incorporated the Farseer Physics Engine.

6.What is the team’s current project?

We are currently working on a game called Typocalypse 3D which we’ve aptly categorized as a web typing-shooter game.  I am writing the game in Unity, reason being I simply wanted to learn the Unity game engine and what better way to do so than to write an actual game in it? The game will be released and playable online and we are currently planning to host the game on multiple sites, starting with Kongregate.com. We also have plans for a companion site, and that’s the project that Richard is working on.  In this website, we will show saved game session statistics and players will be able to compare their score with leaderboards and detailed analytics.

As a side project, I’m also currently porting my old The Lost Battle game to Unity just so that I get it online, because the old is too complicated to install and run (and only works on linux); and for keeping with the retro theme, I’m writing the game in vim only 😉

7.Do the team have any future developments planned?

Once the game is officially released online, we plan to start working on building a website that represents our team.  This website will be our identity, and we’ll use it as a portfolio for our future games. We have bounced a couple of new game ideas around but for the time being we still haven’t decided on what we will be working on next.  What I’m pretty sure about though is that for our next game, we will be experimenting with incorporating different genres.

8.What was your Inspiration for this game?

Back in 2010, my friend Marc Tanti and I attended a two-day XNA course at our local university, and for the second day the instructor told us to come up with a small XNA game; so we teamed up, rushed to the basement, and in ~15 hours we came up with a typing game we called Typocalypse.  Both Marc and I worked on the programming of the game round the clock to try and get as much work done as possible in the few hours that we had.  When the gameplay was finished at ~5 in the morning, Marc recorded the sound effects and ambiance and then we left the basement to go and show off our game to the class. Because of this, I chose to “rewrite” this old typing game in 3D as my first project in Unity…and now we have Typocalypse 3D!

9.How long has it taken you to develop the game from scratch so far?

I started writing the first prototype in January 2013, so up till now, it’s been about ~six months.  All three of us currently have day jobs, so we have to work nights to keep up progress, although I’ve recently quit my programming day job and starting from August, I will have more time to work on the game and other projects.  We meet about twice a week at the basement and try to get as much work done before the sun rises.  It’s not easy, but we’re very passionate about it.

10.What have been the good and bad points during the development stage of the game?

Although working in Unity has been a great experience for us, that’s not to say that it was a bed of roses either.  I did encounter some very frustrating issues with it along the way, but then again there was nothing that wasn’t too problematic to solve. We currently also lack a 3D artist in the team.  Because of this, we had to find most of our in-game models online but we are hoping to replace them in the future if we find someone who’s able to fulfill this task.

11.Do the developers have any future plans for the game?, if yes, what?

Oh definitely, loads actually; too much probably…then again, who doesn’t? Our goal at the moment is to get the game up and running on Kongregate.  After that, depending on how the game performs on Kongregate, we have a couple of new ideas and concepts we’d like to introduce to the game, such as the Story mode (currently we only have an Endurance mode in the game), boss fights, and also multiple levels.

12.What are your views on the game, such as art,game sounds,storyline ect?

Since the original Typocalypse was written in 2D, as for my first Unity project I thought it would be a cool exercise to “rewrite” the original game in 3D.  The original Typocalypse had a spooky kind of atmosphere, where with the new one, we took a more upbeat approach pumping in two electronic tracks, for the start menu and the first level. But we currently have plans to take a more ambiance oriented approach, by including more sound effects based on the different actions that take place in the game.  For this approach, the in game music will be changed to background music, allowing the sound effects to be clearly heard and understood. The game currently only has one of the two game modes available: Endurance mode.  This mode has no plot or storyline; just one goal: attaining the highest score.  Once the game is officially released, players can compete with each other with multiple statistics ranging from Highest Score and Combo Multiplier to Total Headshots and Total Enemies Killed.

Where can we send fans and interested indie gamers?

We are on twitter https://twitter.com/0xTheBasement and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thebasementstudios.

Ok thanks for taking part in this interview with us and we here at Indie Gamers.co.uk would like to wish you the best!

No Problem, thanks for having us.


Let’s take a look at … – Kairo

Starting as a collaboration of world creations, Kairo is an impressive world explorer in which you the player navigate around the puzzling worlds as you uncover the true purpose of Kairo.

Created effectively by a one man team consisting of developer Richard Perrin, Kairo took over three years to fully complete with its Richard’s inspiration sourcing from a handful of abstract architects,“I looked at their work and wanted to create a world where you could explore the kind of places they had imagined”


You are dropped into a highly atmospheric 3-D world and you instinctively begin to explore your surroundings. With the mix of atmospheric details such as fog and architecture that just twists your mind, the game quickly immerses the player with the aid of the fitting audio soundtrack.

The art style for Kairo is different yet clever, as based on a mix of abstract architecture, the player will find themselves in impossible environments filled with eye catching features such as distant lights and twirling particle effects. The art is simple yet fitting for the title as the basic colours; of which the worlds are constructed of; help the player to focus on the actual architecture of the worlds and the elaborate designs and secrets that they represent. However this does not mean there is no detail, as you can see (image above), the general terrain had minute details which help add the the immersion and general presentation of the world.

The movement of the character is simple; and therefore perfect for the style of game; as the player explores the world and attempt to unravel the encrypted story with no distractions such as weapons or other characters.

The in-game audio is an important factor of the title as the calming yet motivating soundtrack urges the player to explore the mysterious structures. I personally feel that without the soundtrack I think that the game would accommodate a horror like aspect to it, as you will be exploring the seemingly abandoned world in near silence

The game’s development had its fair share of ups and downs as all good titles do, Richard says that “The best points were probably taking it to exhibits like PAX and watching people play it, seeing others connect with the experience and then talking to them about it was very rewarding”

However it wasn’t all plain sailing, after the first year of development Richard found himself lacking the motivation and enthusiasm that he needed to continue on the project due to its time consuming nature, however he continued to further the game until it reached the finished status that it is at now.


Whilst the game is at its mostly finished state, Richard is intending to update it with support for the newly funded Occulus Rift, as he thinks that “the game is perfect for the Occulus Rift”  And i cant help but agree, as i can only imagine the levels of immersion that would be capable with the Rift’s involvement.

Richard has also commented about a future development that is currently in progress called Journal, this is what he had to say, “It’s a very different game to Kairo, it’s still story based but at the opposite end of the spectrum.”

You can check out details and keep up to date with the development of Journal here –>


Kairo is currently priced at £4.99 on the Steam and Desura market.

Check it out here! -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/233230/ or http://www.desura.com/games/kairo

I think this is a okay price for the effort that has been put into the game, along with the great immersion levels and future Occulus Rift support. I think that it is a clever way of telling a story without the use of dialogue and think the pricing is fair for its enjoyable experience.

Overall I’m rating Kairo seven point five out of ten, as i find the game to be enjoyable and imersive, and I like the concept of telling a story through the use of the environment. However I can only see the game being played at the most two times as the main point of the game is to learn the story, So once you have familiarized yourself with the tale, there is no other objective to achieve.

Kairo – A game by Richard Perrin



Let’s take a look at … – One Late Night

One Late Night is a short game relying on the players immersion to add a sense of horror and adventure to the game. You the player play as a unnamed graphic designer working late in his office.

As strange things begin to happen in the office you set out to complete a series of tasks in an aim to uncover clues about what’s going on.

The game has been developed by Linus Jönsson the one man team that is behind Black Curtain Studio (http://www.blackcurtainstudio.com/blackcurtain). “One Late Night” is currently available on Desura and the games site.

One Late Night was inspired by Linus’s experiences of working in offices often late at night and alone, partnered with his fondness of physiological horrors, Linus decided he wanted to make a game based on a real life scenario that players could relate to, maximizing immersion.

The games development began in late July/early august of 2012 and finished around the beginning of January 2013. Additional updates where later added to the game, such as bug fixes and game extensions. The development was mostly an easy ride with the main problem being the creation of decent game playability in such a confined environment. The game began to look more like a simulation style game but with some adjustments the adventure/story side of the game emerged.

Linus’s favorite part of the game is the success fulness of the atmosphere that has been created with the relate-able office environment, as the office that he was able to create matched the original office that he was styling the game off.

The overall storyline/objective of the game is to manipulate your character around the office environment whilst attempting to complete tasks to uncover clues to aid you in understanding the unusual, spine chilling happenings in the office. Tasks such as accessing yours and your colleagues computers to find files and finding office keys are just a vague example of the tasks

The games art (created by Linus) is realistic to an extent with a recreation of a office workplace, the art is overall well detailed and fits the game perfectly aiding the creation of the realism atmosphere, with in game shadows and lights adding the required detail to enhance the immersion.

The games sound (Composed By Pontus Malmqvist) is fitting to the games office environment with a calm yet mildly motiving beat which i throughly enjoyed. The in game sounds are that typical of an office for example the printers sounds. This adds to the realistic environment that is built by Linus.

Linus is currently working on a sequel to “One Late Night” with a similarly named title of “One Late Night – Deadline”, with the promise of extended game play environment as you unlock access to the entire office block. As you play you will uncover further clues you couldn’t access in the first game helping to piece together the story.

Linus is also working on a 2D Hack N Slash platformer titled “Skylark” This game is near completion and will be released soon so keep a watch on Desura.

With The game being free i find it a exceptionally generous game as the playability will last you around one to two hours of intense play as you take time to uncover all the clues. The games art and audio also shows effort had been put in so i believe a game this playable for FREE is a great deal. Check it out and download it from Desura here ((http://www.desura.com/games/one-late-night)

My first impressions of “One Late Night” where “wow, i really am in an office” I loved the desk feel as you begin with the amusement of the spinning computer chair, i jumped up
and began to explore the office and experienced the small initial “Paranormal” events such as doors opening and photocopiers with minds of their own. I couldn’t fail to notice
the snail like pace that the character moves at which makes the simple task of traveling to a nearby office a chore. However I do not believe this is fully bad as I find that it
reinforces the realism and adds to tension as you slowly return to your computer chair. There also is the concern of minor
difficulty interacting with parts of the environment such as the opening of some drawers and minor un-clarity regarding which objects are important
to the game and which are scenery.

An Interview With … – Vintage Games

Welcome to our interview with Charlie Nash from Vintage Games, in which VG are the developers of Weathered, The Cat, and more.

On 7 June, 2013, Luke Barlow (LB) of The Indie Reviews got some answers from Charlie Nash (VG) about his and his comrades’ endeavors. See how they got on below!

LB: When and why was the development team formed?

VG: Vintage Games started in February 2013, up until recently I was the

only member of the team. VG started as I wanted to be in full control of

what I do, so I left the current team I was at and started work!

LB: Who formed the team?

VG: I formed the team.

LB: Who is now a member of the team?

VG: Currently there are five people who are in or have contributed

heavily to the team. Myself (Art and Programming) being the main one and

with contributions from Patrick Jackson (Support design and

Programming), Ruan Opie Meres (Art), and Musicians; Gabriel Guimaraes

and RampantMusik.


LB: Where did the name of “Vintage Games” come from?

VG: “Vintage Games” came from my obsession with all things 1920’s to

1950’s, and since our first project Weathered is heavily 20s – 50s

inspired it seemed perfect.

LB: What are the general views on games such as favorite genres and titles for the developers?

VG: Everyone who has worked on Weathered is pretty much a big fan of

things such as Cyberpunk, Dieselpunk, Steampunk and Retro Futurism.

My favourite AAA games include the BioShock series and Fallout series

(These titles were the biggest inspirations to Weathered).

And my favourite indie game is The Journey Down (By SkyGoblin).

LB: What games have the team developed in their past?


VG: Myself (Charlie) – The Cat, Chatter, Angry Reviewer and

Doses are previous games I have worked on. (Doses is awful, don’t go

near that crap).

Patrick Jackson – CMDRogue, The Cat.

The others I’m not too sure, ha ha.

LB: What is the team’s current project?

VG: The current project is Weathered, which is a Dieselpunk 20s – 50s

inspired 2D RPG.

LB: What was your inspiration for your current game?

VG: Inspiration for Weathered came from the following: Fallout (1, 2, 3,

NV), BioShock (1, 2, Infinite), The Journey Down, Artists such as The

Ink Spots, George Formby etc, Black and White Minstrels, and loads more.

LB: How long has it taken you to develop the game from scratch so far?

VG: The game hasn’t been built from complete scratch as I have been

using the AGS engine. But I have been working on the game since January.

The reason it has taken longer than expected is due to script changes

and changes of inspiration.


LB: What have been the good and bad points during the development stage of the game?

VG: The good bits of developing the game are the creative bits.

Designing propaganda and advertisements for locations, and thinking of

wacky ideas to implement. Another good bit is talking to other Indies

and getting feedback etc..

The bad bits include losing interest in the project and having to do

lots and lots of art for everything.


LB: Do the developers have any future plans for the game?, if yes, what?

VG: The plan for the game is to be an RPG set in the middle of the sea

where you can travel to different locations such as islands and pier

settlements to perform quests and other things. So far we are on track.

LB: What are your views on the game, such as art, game sounds, story-line, etc.?

VG: A man called Javier Cabrera (Creator of “Cypher”) told me that all

that matters, is if I like the game. And so far all the work has paid

off and I am happy with it so far. Hopefully it will progress 🙂

LB: Do the team have any future developments planned?

VG: In the future there will most likely be lots of updates and

expansions to Weathered and possibly a sequel if all goes well. Other

projects I am not too sure yet.